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Andrey Dmitrovsky: “We will seek for broad international cooperation in fight against infections”

In Kazakhstan a subject of construction of laboratory for storage of dangerous biological pathogens on money of the USA is actively discussed. «The laboratory of the Pentagon under construction in Alma-Ata for work with dangerous infections can become threat for the laboratory city for storage of dangerous biological pathogens» is one of typical headings of articles concerning this subject.

Our questions were answered by the academician of the International academy of ecology and safety, the Doctor of Medicine, professor of department of infectious and tropical diseases of the S. D. Asfendiyarov Kazakh National Medical University (Alma-Ata) Andrey Dmitrovsky:

- I won’t hide, I hesitated to give this interview or not, unfortunately such activity isn’t approved by the higher management and all the same backfires. But «sensational"publications of the last months and even statement of the asked questions convinced me that probably not everything is clear in this area, there is a misunderstanding, and, probably, certain persons or circles, intentionally distort a picture trying to earn the political capital or material dividends on it.

Eventually, we are all from the Soviet Union in what personally I don’t see something bad and I remember that time with warnth and joy. I was born, graduated from school and medical institute, worked there, in the Soviet Union. So it turned out that, being the practitioner after institute, I began to specialize on infectious diseases, passed internship, worked in the area, then in Almaty clinic, graduated from biennial clinical internship at the Kazakh scientific research institute of epidemiology, microbiology and infectious diseases.

Why I tell all this and to whom it is interesting?

Probably to nobody, but in 1979 I was invited in the Central Asian anti-plague institute where I worked for 20 years, I defended the candidate, then doctor’s, by the way, on clinic and plague treatment. I grew from junior researcher to the head of department of preparation of special shots. So I know a problem firsthand, and from within.

And here it is the time to answer questions:

— Why Kazakhstan agreed on that America created the objects for storage of dangerous viruses in its territory?

- The question is formulated incorrectly, in Kazakhstan always, since the Soviet Union, existed and exist still also as well as in all other federal republics, various objects, in submission of a number of the ministries engaged both diagnostic, and scientific researches in the field of infectious diseases of people and animals. And everyone such, for example, the scientific research institute, naturally, has to have own collection of microorganisms which is necessary for full scientific work. So bacteria and viruses were stored always in the Republic of Kazakhstan, I repeat, since the USSR.

It just also disturbed the Americans: plurality of storage of the dangerous pathogens, easy availability of these pathogens for terrorists from their (American) point of view. Why I say «from their point of view?» Yes, because all diagnostic and scientific activity in the field of infectious diseases, microbiology, virology always corresponded to ours (at first Soviet, then Kazakhstan) requirements. Another thing is that these our requirements not always conformed to the international standards.

And so, one of the main objectives of the program for reduction of biological threats (pay attention to the name, in principle it speaks for itself), signed at intergovernmental level between the Republic of Kazakhstan and the USA was the consolidation (association) of all more or less significant collections in one place, to be exact in that anti-plague institute in Alma-Ata which is called now as the Kazakh scientific center quarantine and the zoogenous infections.

Want the Americans it or not, disturbs it someone in the Russian Federation or not, there was so-called «museum of live cultures» since foundation of institute in 1948. It is necessary to say that the similar museums or collections are unique meeting of a gene pool of pathogenic microorganisms which is similar to similar collections, for example crops, but have, probably, even bigger value for the state, for the people.

I will explain why: the thesis that the time will come when the science will cope with all infections and they will disappear which was taught us at institute, nowadays died and for a long time. Such time won’t come. Microorganisms breed more considerably quicker us, and change quicker; nobody in vitro will be able to create and a thousand, million share of that variety of processes in the field of relationship between microorganisms and macroorganisms, their owners and victims the list of which include also us.

Therefore, at once I will tell that all these conversations on artificial pathogens, allegedly someone created and let out to walk on a planet, there is a totally ludicrous. The agiotage is supported by movies — horror films, in which all is a full fantasy. I don’t know any such causative agent of an infectious disease. And it isn’t necessary also: we have to cope with that the nature constantly throws up to us— HIV, the African hemorrhagic fevers, atypical pneumonia, in any case examples are plentiful — it would seem banal flu. Remember well-known «Spanish influenza»: how many million people then were lost! Thank God, that somebody doesn’t have the idea to declare that virus let out of military laboratories — there weren’t such technologies then, but such «Spanish influenza» can appear nearly every year. And these viruses (flu) appear not in military laboratories or research centers like American, but in South East Asia which is their homeland and which stamps all new and new kinds of viruses in a year.

— The Central Reference-laboratory (CRL) opens in Alma-Ata? What is it? What are the functions of laboratory?

- This name is conditional because in order that the laboratory received the status of reference, it has to pass a long way of official recognition in the form of certification and accreditation at first within the country, then international (WHO). But the name defines aspiration, the purpose to which we have to aspire. This project is very difficult. And the main complexity consists not in that to construct a concrete box and in recruiting experts and to buy the equipment — in principle now the situation favorable in the Republic of Kazakhstan, even regional structures both medical and veterinary are perfectly equipped, many new standard laboratories are constructed.

The complexity in that the Americans initially sought to convince our government of uniting the central laboratories of three ministries in one structure — health care, agriculture and education, and science. On the one hand it is rational — all main collections of dangerous pathogens will be concentrated in one place. It is easier to protect them and easier to control. One complex team quickly also can competently react to emergence of cases and the outbreaks of especially dangerous infections though at people though at animals especially as many of them are zoogenous, i. e. dangerous diseases of animals can affect the people, for example, plague, anthrax, brucellosis, virus hemorrhagic fevers etc.

On the other hand, psychologically and politically it is very difficult to work to the different ministries together especially as this CRL has to be over ministerial in principle: submitting for example, to security council or the vice-prime minister that is proved too because each ministry in the forefront has departmental interests, and they not always coincide with nation-wide, national; for example to hide something, any case or incidence …

But, I repeat, the question is rather difficult, there are only two such examples of joint structures in the world and there are no such examples in Kazakhstan. It will be the four-storeyed building of modern standard construction; there are no analogs on security and reliability in the Republic of Kazakhstan. Each ministry would have one floor in CRL and one public floor where, by the way, will be also the state collection of microorganisms.

Now there are the purposes: first of all it is consolidation of activators in one place, the second — reference functions. What is it? Actually there are no reference laboratories in the Republic of Kazakhstan while which conforming to all international standards and have passed all stages of internal and international accreditation. During the crisis after Union disintegration we lost a lot of things in science and epidemiological surveillance, but a lot of things were kept, in comparison with other republics. But now we have to make a quantum leap, lift level of all system of an epidemiological surveillance behind dangerous infectious diseases on the new qualitative level conforming to the highest international standards.

There is a certain hierarchy, in particular, in laboratory researches: for example, in regional laboratory the opportunity is limited and the sick or the material from patients are sent on many researches to area. In principle the regional or city structures can conduct researches of any complexity now in the Republic of Kazakhstan, but who will confirm the results of their researches? Who will control the quality of the tests carried out by them? Who will train them in new techniques? Who will act as the judge in controversial, for example, judicial questions?

And if any new disease arises which doesn’t know in regional structures, who will come them to a rescue, who will help with carrying out actions, God forbid, at flash or epidemic? Earlier such centers were in Moscow at the Soviet Union, they remained there, but it is inconvenient to go to Moscow already as after all it is the abroad.

Here it is far not the full list of tasks which we see facing new laboratory, better to say the center. And, certainly, there would be broad applied and fundamental scientific work: we have no Vector, now will have, though to some extent.

— The laboratory will be the only laboratory of this sort in Central Asia?

- No, not the only in respect of reference functions; similar laboratories are practically in all independent states, they exist on the basis of republican SES and anti-plague stations, on the basis of veterinary stations. But there are no such analogs uniting under one roof three ministries in the USA, but it is in Canada.

— The Ministry of Defence of the USA finances the construction? Does it means that the laboratory will carry out the military tasks?

- No, certainly. Remember who was the richest in the USSR: military department; and in the USA. Especially as the program is directly tied on safety of the state. Safety of Kazakhstan, both Russia and USA. It sounds improbably, but only for those who sees the enemies in Americans: if the American, it means bad, dangerous, menacing.

But take the bird flu, or it is even better notorious «Spanish influenza» or «pork» flu: they know no limit and kill both Americans and Kazakhstan citizens or, for example, Russians. The program was developed, besides everything, after application of powder dispute of the causative agent of anthrax in the USA. This case, besides others, pushed to development of new strategy on fight and the prevention of dangerous infectious diseases — it is easier (cheaper that is important), speaking to epidemiological language «to localize and liquidate the flash» in a place of its emergence, instead of to chase it all over the world moreover, God forbid, in the own country (like the USA).

On the other hand, there was the case, even one, say, anthrax or other infection, and it isn’t always clear where the patient picked up an illness. And furthermore the flash — if someone applied something, how to understand?

But, if you have a sufficient collection, even not activators but only, say, their genetic material, even simply this on genotyping of activators from different regions and the countries, to global genotyping all over the world, you will tell tomorrow from where this activator came! And if it local, homebrew, so to say, so everything is all right: strengthen the epidemiological surveillance; if not — the conclusions are absolutely others.

And, in my opinion, the game is worth the candle. All leading reference centers of Russia carry out such work and cooperate with the Republic of Kazakhstan in this plan, accumulate the database, but also transfer these data to universal base and any researcher can receive it from there in principle. But in Kazakhstan such work practically didn’t begin yet — it should be begun still yesterday, well at least tomorrow in new laboratory, so to speak, for free.

Why namely Kazakhstan? This question isn’t necessary to experts. Kazakhstan is the center of Eurasia, here there is the movement of people and goods between the South and the North, the West and the East; nearby China, South East Asia, from where annually new viruses come to us from a number of families. The whole reserve zoogenous of natural and focal infections is in the territory of the Republic of Kazakhstan, plague, tularemiya, including and Crimean, plus hemorrhagic fever. Therefore all of them should be studied, genotyped and to bring eventually in a world database.

— Why the USA is going to fight against epidemics in Kazakhstan and other republics of Central Asia?

- Not the USA, not the American, but the Kazakhstan experts will fight against epidemics and work in the new center and it is under jurisdiction of the Republic of Kazakhstan. However if, for example, the Russian scientists want to participate in our researches conducted in this center, so welcome: we sign the contract according to the current legislation about joint scientific researches and work together. We see this future center as the regional international center for carrying out scientific researches in the field of infectious diseases and, first of all, in the field of especially dangerous, zoogenous infections and we will seek for broad international cooperation.

— Is it possible to draw a distinction between actually scientific and military researches?

- Both yes and no. Any development can be used in the military purposes. The matter is not in that, the matter is in a state policy. Kazakhstan from the moment of the formation as independent state proclaimed the commitment to the international agreements; it didn’t make, doesn’t make and won’t make, had no, has no and won’t have weapons of mass destruction in the territory.
And it just an essence of that contract which concerns not only biological, but also other types of the similar weapon, first of all the nuclear.

- This project is part of the interstate agreement of Kazakhstan and the USA. What is its essence?


- According to this contract the American people (after all the spent money is money of the American taxpayers, and, so the people) do gesture of good will, helping Kazakhstan to lift the level of an epidemiological surveillance to modern international standards, certainly, not absolutely disinterestedly. It means, that I already told — elimination of dangerous flashes and epidemics on a root in places of their emergence. For this purpose it was planned to construct or re-equip some so-called regional laboratories for physicians and veterinarians who would be reference in the regions and one central. This plan is a little artificial: we need to have powerful modern laboratories both medical, and veterinary in each area that now the Republic of Kazakhstan can make and independent and does already. Therefore, this part was cut down, but CRL is under construction and is already close to end.

The second direction is the equipment; we need to transfer the laboratory etiological researches to modern rails that also are already carried almost out in areas. However, there is a new problem — training, training of experts for work on this modern equipment. We had now a paradoxical situation when the level of equipment of practical health care and veterinary service overtook many universities and institutes. Certainly, now it is also leveled, but as well as where to train all this mass of experts?

Also it is one more direction of the above-sounded intergovernmental contract. The American experts together with the Kazakhstan experts work in the field of training on laboratory diagnostics, epidemiology, biological safety. We plan and already provide training in the international standards in these areas of the faculty of universities they, eventually, then provided this training. For the final stage of training of highly qualified specialists who are «piece goods», CRL will be used besides.

— Should the citizens of Kazakhstan have to be afraid of such dangerous neighborhood? Or it is not dangerous?

- I come back to the beginning of our interview. The citizens of Kazakhstan lived in many places near such not absolutely safe establishments, lived for decades. Fortunately there were no such events in the Republic of Kazakhstan as we will tell in Sverdlovsk (anthrax) or in Moscow (brucellosis). Now with project start, and, especially, when it will come to the end, their safety will repeatedly amplify; the state collection of microorganisms will be generally consolidated in one place, biological safety level in the new center will be much higher, than in the operating.
Thus, in completion of our conversation there is a wish to tell that

- firstly, the Americans as it is paradoxical, don’t build new biological objects, «having imposed Russia with them from all directions» and only modify for a long time the existing centers (it is so given that already is the time to do capital repairs);

- secondly, the situation doesn’t increase danger, but, on the contrary, significantly reduces it, bringing the existing laboratories into the state conforming to the international standards of biological safety which are much higher existing on places nowadays, working, thus, in addition, for safety of Russia;

- and, at last, thirdly: we should cooperate, work more closely with together: both Kazakhstan, and Russia, both the USA, and other independent states on the former Soviet Union. Naturally, other countries of Europe, Asia, America and Africa will own a situation, to know information first-hand, and will exclude even possibility such strange and ridiculous questions from my point of view.

Viewed : 546   Commented: 0

Author: Vladimir Kuzmenkin

Publication date : 14 February 2014 21:43

Source: The world and we

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