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The deputy of the State Duma of the Russian Federation Anatoly Lokot about Victor Ilyukhin: the matter of Katyn hasn’t finished yet

On November 26, 2010 the State Duma has accepted the statement “Of Katyn tragedy and its victims” in which recognized the responsibility of the Soviet governing body for shooting of citizens of Poland in Katyn. Not all deputies have voted for this document. The former employee of the Attorney General’s of the USSR, the deputy of the State Duma Victor Ilyukhin, who has died recently, was engaged in investigation of circumstances of Katyn tragedy. The deputy of the State Duma Anatoly Lokot tells us about his companion and matter as which he considered essentially important.

— In the end of November, 2010, the State Duma has taken out on plenary meeting and has accepted the statement on Katyn tragedy about shooting of the Polish officers in the Smolensk region. The facts have laid down in a statement basis which keep within the version of Reich Minister Goebbels, that the army of People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs has shot more than 27 thousand Polish officers under Katyn.

The diaries of doctor Goebbels dated 1943 year have remained in which he describes how the idea on carrying out of this action has come. There was a moment when he has begun to doubt in what will be reaction, whether all keeps within the facts. Perhaps it is necessary to throw this venture... But then he has finished this matter.

In 1944 the commission worked in Katyn after the territory release. The known doctor Nikolay Burdenko was headed it from the Soviet party. Its structure included the priests, officers, doctors. The exhumation of victims of tragedy was spent. Also it has actually been proved that the shootings of the Polish officers have been made by Hitlerite armies - from their weapon and by their techniques.

The difficulty of a question is that, really, the shootings of the Poles by armies of People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs were. The question is in the following: how many the Polish officers have been shot by the forces of People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs?

— That is?

— If to consider the historic facts objectively, without emotions, so it has been interned over 500 thousand Polish military men during an emancipating campaign in 1939 in which the Soviet Union has returned the territories of the Western Ukraine and the Western Byelorussia. The majority of them have been released on freedom. Many have made later a basis of two Polish armies. One of them is the army of general Anders which has been generated in Kazakhstan and which hasn't wished to be at war on East front. It have passed through Teheran and it has left to Africa where was at war against the Hitlerites on the side of the Englishmen. Other army has arisen in the beginning from a division of a name of Tadeush Kostyushko and was called as "Army of Lyudov". It was at war on the side of the Soviet Union, participated in release of Poland, Warsaw and even took Berlin. And so, the backbone of these armies just also was made by those Polish military men.

But about three and a half thousand from them have been shot — those whom were recognized as the enemies of the Soviet power according current legislation of that time. There were the gendarmes, employees of special services, those who worked in system of concentration camps for the Poles. By the way, the Poles behaved aggressively then. The Polish state of that time Pilsudsky has been incited against the USSR. It is a historic fact. They participated in devision of the territory of Czech Republic at the Munich arrangement. Then Poland has received a part of territory of the neighbouring state. It is known that the Poles suggested to pass the Hitlerite armies through the territory to the east to wage war against the Soviet Union.

— But where did these figures come from — three and a half thousand victims?

— They were recognized by the last live witness whom had time to question, namely Lazar Kaganovich. In 1988-1991years the commission under the direction of Alexander Yakovlev worked. And then Kaganovich recognized that, really, Stalin Political bureau has made such decision and three and a half thousand Poles have been shot. But the main question is where did the figure in 27 thousand victims come from?

During the occupation, the Germans have fallen down the corpses of shot people in the same holes. The tragedy of those times is the fear to confess in shooting of even these three thousand. And this half-truth always left traces on the Russian-Polish relations. But to recognize 27 thousand is means to recognize the Goebbel’s variant! Goebbels has very competently built this version, has conducted the whole campaign.

— On what facts your statements are based?

— Of course, the shooting in Katyn is tragedy. But such there were the times... We weren't then the friendly states. And the Western march, despite of exsanguinity, was actually intense enough. There were the fights here and there with the Polish military parts...

The commission of Burdenko, having led exhumation of corpses, has found out the bullets which have remained after shooting. The bullets from the German weapon and the caliber was corresponding too — in general, the German ammunition. This is the first. The opponents in the answer say that the People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs took specially the German weapon — ostensibly masked thereby this mass shooting. What for?! It was 1939. Nobody has in mind that the Germans will come to our territory. On the contrary, they said that we will finish off the enemy on their earth. The armies of People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs have been armed by our rifles and revolvers. And it was not need to use the unfamiliar foreign weapon.

One more fact to which I would like to pay attention: the hands of the shot people have been bound with the string. The people in the Soviet Union didn't know what was the paper string at that time. And the Germans had it – we had it only after the war.

All these facts as mosaic slices, keep within uniform system - they show that the enormous provocation has been spent which Goebbels has begun. Unfortunately, it was a success.

The deputy, the investigator of cases of particular importance, who entered into an investigation group of the Attorney General’s of the Soviet Union Victor Ivanovich Ilyukhin also undertook this theme. This is the person with a wide experience. All those facts which I name, he has stated in the book “Secret of Katyn tragedy”. There is a lot of a historical material.

The deputy Ilyukhin has approached this theme not as the historian but as the investigator. The documents have remained that he is the researcher. Namely the commission headed by Alexander Yakovlev in the decline of the Soviet Union, has drawn a conclusion that the fault of the USSR is proved. Victor Ilyukhin has drawn a conclusion that many documents have been garbled already in the Soviet period — from 1989 to 1991.

— How many time Victor Ilyukhin was engaged in investigation of Katyn tragedy?

- Not less than three years. And the most dense during the last year. He talked to people who were the witnesses of how documents were prepared in the end of 80th for the report of Yakovlev’s commission. Katyn was a background then … The great attention was directed to the Molotov – Ribbentrop Pact. Victor Ivanovich was engaged both that and another. Therefore I underline, he had the people who knew how the documents were prepared and falsified.

- Could he name the surnames of those who participated in falsification of documents?

- Victor Ilyukhin was going to sound the surnames of those who was guilty of misinformation but simply had no time to make it. He was the system lawyer, didn't prepare the leaflets, emotional performances. There were not political but legal, historical documents which had the big political value. He collected the demonstrative base before sounding the surnames. Ilyukhin had the informants who knew how the silicone seals were made in the eighties and before the war they were cut only from rubber. The analysis has shown that in the base of materials of stamps, seals on the documents of 1939, the silicone joints were used. It wasn't such then! All seals were cut from rubber. He has found these stamps and has shown them in the Duma. I held in my hand too.

Victor Ivanovich has found the documents which contained the seal of the Central Committee of the CPSU, although it was the All-Union Communist Party (of Bolsheviks) that time. He has given the main document for an independent examination where there was a signature of Beriya. The examination has shown that these sheets were printed on different typewriters. It couldn't be at office-work that was in People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs then. From this Victor Ilyukhin has drawn a conclusion that the document is falsified. It was printed out in the eighties.

- Is the work on investigation is finished?

- Unfortunately, no. And we don't know who could continue it. All threads were controled over by Ilyukhin. Victor Ivanovich's influence was enormous - many people worked with him on trust. Victor Ivanovich has carried the investigation to a certain stage. His book was published. As a matter of fact this work is the result of the first stage of work. At a following stage he was going to sound the surnames of falsifiers.

- Are the documents all declassified or the access to them is limited?

- The documents are in the former “special folder”. For today they aren't confidential but according to Victor Ilyukhin, the access to them can receive not everyone.

— What consequences will have the document accepted by State Duma on Katyn tragedy?

- According to Victor Ilyukhin, today there are already 70 claims to Russia from those relatives who became the victim. Further, behind this recognition, their quantity will only increase... The brother of the lost president Kachinsky has declared that the acceptance of the statement by Duma is insufficiently. They already began to name the figure of compensation — 210 billion dollars! But there is more to come. It can be taken the following step behind it. The Poles recognize the fault in occupation both from Germany and from the Soviet Union. They have already actually started it to do.

When on September 1, 2009 there was a tragical date — 70 years from the beginning of the Second World War, the Polish Seim has accepted the statement in which has balanced the fault for decoupling of the Second World War between Germany and the Soviet Union. The Poles will consistently demand the payments from Russia any more not for Katyn tragedy but for occupation consequences. Here is the historical danger for long decades forward.

- One more theme: the historian Yury Zhukov suggests to put forth to Poland the counterclaim for destruction of 60 thousand Red Army men in 1920 1921 years.

- Such idea sounded in the State Duma some years ago. Then the deputies of fraction of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation have acted with the initiative. But before putting forward the counterclaim to Poland, it is necessary to be engaged in careful investigation which Victor Ivanovich was engaged. He simply had no time to begin this work.

Sooner or later it will be done, because ten thousand of Red Army men were lost in the Polish concentration camps. Their destiny as though doesn't exist in the history, it is “a blank spot”. They tried not to agitate these themes in the Soviet period because they were painful for our bilateral relations.

The deputy Victor Ilyukhin has been assured that it was impossible to accept that document which was accepted by the State Duma on Katyn. The claims will follow. The sums of ten billion dollars already sound. But as Russia has taken this step it would be logical to make now the investigation of events when the taken prisoner Red Army men were lost or were missing and to put the counterclaim to the Polish party. Let they recognize the fault too.

- What can finish in a question on Katyn tragedy?

- The independent investigation is necessary. The matter is that during the acceptance of the statement on fault recognition in Katyn by State Duma, the documents haven't been shown. The argumentation was verbal. It is necessary to create the commission, let it examine the documents and on the basis of this investigation will take out a verdict.

Viewed : 2548   Commented: 0

Author: Владимир Кузменкин

Publication date : 01 January 1970 07:25

Source: The world and we

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