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Toktogul Kakchekeev: “It is necessary to remember always about a precept of our ancestors!”

Toktogul Kakchekeevich Kakchekeev is one of the most known political scientists of the Republic of Kyrgyzstan. He is the cochairman of the Association of graduates of the Russian institutes of higher education of Kyrgyzstan and the executive director of association of political scientists of the Republic of Kyrgyzstan. He has something to say …

In the interview to our portal Toktogul Kakchekeev told about the republic relations with her neighbors, that water plays important role in the politics in Central Asia, about what interests pursue the world powers here:

- Is it possible to say that the problem of Kyrgyzstan safety is solved in the global plan?

- I do not think that the problem of safety is irrevocably solved. Everything is unsteady. Remember the 1990th year – the Uzbek-Kirghiz international conflict. And in 20 years there is the second conflict in Osh according to the same scheme and the same parameters. Between these two events there was also the invasion of fighters of Islamic movement of Uzbekistan, the extremist acts in the south of the country. Time shows that the craze of “color and Arab revolutions” is sent not only to the countries of Central Asia, I think they are aimed at the Caucasus, Transcaucasia and the Volga region.

The South of our republic and Uzbekistan are in one field of the Fergana cultural heritage. There is the trinity as we generally speak: mahalla – market – mosque. But the history is not only the interesting stories about a glorious past. For example, recently there is a poeticizing of the Great Silk way. It is worth to remember and that there were also the tracks of slave trade, traffic in arms, track of drug dealers from Italy to Beijing. And these tracks didn't disappear according to the head of anti-drug department of the Russian Federation Victor Ivanov, only through the territory of Kyrgyzstan the drugs passes annually on 16 billion dollars!? There are a lot of most different problems here.

- When they speak about Kyrgyzstan, so the conversation on distinctions between the northern and southern part of the country often comes.


- You know, this division reminds a situation in the USA before the civil war: there is the developed North and more backward South between which there is a conflict. Also it is possible to see the cultural difference. So, the North is focused on Russia, on the Russian culture, the Russian language; it is adjusted always pro-Russian. The northerners go to Russia to work too – they don't know anything else and don't want to know! So they treat the Russians and the Kazakhs in the North – there are no closer people.

If one spouse is the Russian in a family and another is the Kirghiz, such family doesn't break up and will live in peace and harmony till the end of life. I know many Kirghiz marrying the Germans, the Englishwomen – such marriage doesn't exist more than five years …

-What are the relations with Uzbekistan?


- I treat Islam Karimov with very big piety. He studied in Moscow. This person possesses a wide range of progressive views, he is wise, but at the same time he is the rigid person. If he wasn't in power in Uzbekistan, as I think, we would lose the South long ago. Imagine: the Uzbeks are 32 million, army is 200 thousand people. They managed to keep all heritage of the Soviet Union in the military plan: they have the Air Force including bombing, regiment and parts of front aircraft … And, they pay well to the military man in Uzbekistan.

Also it is necessary to pay tribute to Karimov – he didn't allow the large-scale conflict in the region. And there is a lot of wishing to see how Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan will grapple in conflict! And not only in our countries, but also abroad. However Islam Karimov appeared on the place and managed to stop the adverse succession of events.

- But there is a problem with enclaves.


- The matter is that there were no such people as the count Muravev, who demarcated the border of the Russian and Qing empires at huge distance without a single shot. The president Askar Akayev didn't extend the republic sovereignty to enclaves though he could make it. And now there are the territories of Uzbekistan and Tajikistan which are surrounded with the territory of our republic.

In Akayev’s time we conceded the territory to the Chinese. The duality of Americans is just visible on this example. They only spoke about the democracy, but didn't begin to raise this subject in the UN Security Council.

- A certain territory left as well to Kazakhstan?


- It is Karkyra's region and Switzerland is nothing compared to this beauty. Now Kazakhstan actively develops this territory, understanding its huge tourist potential: after all there is the peak of Khan Tengri nearby. Nursultan Nazarbayev arrived to us to sign the contract with the president Kurmanbek Bakiyev and now the vouchers of the Kazakhstan tour operators operate on all territory of our republic … In acknowledgement of alienation of the Kirghiz lands, Nursultan Nazarbayev took out Bakiyev’s family by the military plane and accompanied by the Kazakhstan special troops.

- The politicians who made these decisions, proved the choice by the need of preservation of stability.

- Our politicians appeared insolvent as never they went in politics. And they didn't want to study. They are as the wooden Pinocchio: the puppet pulls a hand or a foot when someone will pull for the necessary thread. So in our case such thread is the cash! The care only about oneself, instead of about the Homeland operates such people. Here is the main threat of our safety!

- Kazakhstan is not only the neighbor, but also the most important partner of Kyrgyzstan. However, here is not everything good …

- Now the normal relations are established with Kazakhstan, but not so that very much … Because all arrangements within EurAsEC about free moving of the goods and services don't work yet! Kazakhstan actually rigidly kept Kyrgyzstan in blockade for 12-15 years. It used the oil products, so necessary for us, as the pressure tool – of course, Russia helped us very much in such situations. Kazakhstan, on the contrary, didn't let out our agricultural production out of borders of the country.

What is the reason? It is the same – that we were obedient. Kazakhstan would like to feel as “elder brother” in relation to us. And here also the subjective moment affected. In due time, they spoke so much and wrote about the wedding of the children of presidents of Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan … But there was no family life, and, as they say, the hem remained. And further the Asian mentality took effect … Actually the Kazakhs behaved as in Ablai Khan’s time, whom, I will remind, the Kirghiz killed then …

Of course, Nazarbayev is endowed with mind, but the glory and wealth can turn the head. It is very unwisely that Nursultan Abishevich got friendship with the former CIA member James Giffin … All consequences still ahead, after all Kazakhstan gave almost all industry under external management: 80 % of the industry is under control of the Western investors such giants as Dzhezkazgan, Karaganda and oil and gas fields and the concessions are given out more than 49 years! But the variant with the transfer of the big territory to rent to Chinese could be, but then the people were indignant and consequently went back.

- One more neighbor is Tajikistan.

- We are two small countries, which other politicians call as the weak link in the CIS. There is much general: Tajikistan passed through the blood of civil war. We passed through the conflicts in Osh and two revolutions. We are the stagnation states. Tajikistan is in stagnation because of a position of Uzbekistan which all the time puts forward the claims to the neighbor. The main problem in their relations and in our relations with Uzbekistan is water!

For the sake of what the Soviet power built the cascades of hydroelectric power stations and a reservoir in Central Asia? For the sake of the Uzbek and South Kazakhstan cotton growing! Give billion tons! And water is necessary for this purpose, a lot of water. So the power ring “Central Asia” appeared which was connected with Siberia and the Urals. When there was not enough energy, it was directed from here it by a ring. Still the ragged transmission lines 500 stand in the direction to Orenburg – all already removed from them … The question of revival of an integrated power grid was discussed in Chernomyrdin’s time, but all remained in words …

By the way, the control panel of the cascades is in the territory of… Uzbekistan! When there was one big country, there were no problems, but now they are more than enough. I believe that many politicians had the income of water sale to Uzbekistan. The family mafia solved how to be with water: at first Akayev family, then Bakiyev. Imagine: how it is possible to believe, when the power declares to the citizens that technical losses of water in Kyrgyzstan make 58 %! Not 5, not 8, but 58! Experts consider that the loss can’t make more than seven percent in any way …

There was an idea to create a water consortium of Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan as the water and the hydroelectric power station are in our territory, it means, we should define the prices for water and energy. But now it is impossible to agree in a civilized way: Karimov gives a hostile reception to any our offers. He says that water is the benefit from the God, but not from neighboring countries where the unrestrained rivers begin the way from mountain tops.

It would not be desirable to strain relations – they are not so easy. We hope that Russia will tell the loaded word.

- At the beginning of reorganization they wrote that cotton solves everything here. So all remains to this day?


- Uzbekistan has about ten reservoirs – it in principle enough. Somewhere in the 90th years they held the international conference on cotton growing and after it they passed to long-staple cotton. And the essence is that it drinks waters three times more! The Uzbeks perfectly understand that the Soviet textile industry was constructed under the Uzbek and Kazakhstan cotton therefore they can't lose such market. Russia already tried to import cotton from Argentina and Brazil and was convinced that it is unprofitable. Here are the raw materials which are developed under the Soviet standard. So, economy will tell the word all the same.

- One authors write how democracy develops in the region and the others predict sad destiny to it because of growing contradictions between the states of Central Asia. To whom we have to trust?

- The conflicts in Central Asia somewhere are knocked down and somewhere simply faded into the background. Kyrgyzstan already outgrew the conflicts – we had the immunity. The ardent nationalists gradually go to aftertaste. Here they heard that Vladimir Putin talked to our president Almazbek Atambayev in Novo- Ogaryovo for two and a half hours and at once changed the tone. They started to explain that they didn't suggest to bereave the Russian language of the status of official language in Kirgizstan's republic that it is not necessary to change anything in the Constitution. However the exporters of the American model of democracy do their business, and now we have more than two thousand NGOs. The congress of the USA annually gives about 15 million dollars for the Central Asian republics! It exceeds the contribution of the Russian cooperation in the region in times …

- Let's talk now not about neighbors, but about those countries which actively prove in Central Asia and in Kyrgyzstan in particular. It is told much, for example, about the interest of China …

- There are no any conflicts with China. However, it is directly said in our epic work “Manas” that the main danger to our people is represented by China. Even the word “China” is our word; the whole world calls them differently. Perhaps, it will be correct to translate this word as the person of other belief, cruel, dangerous …

To understand our Asian affairs, it would be necessary for the European person to read the bastings to the third volume of “Capital” where it is told about an Asian way of production. Marx was right in many respects; it is possible to be convinced of it, looking at today's situation. China is “children of the sky” therefore they should surpass and dominate all everywhere. But China doesn't like the wars! In general, the Chinese are not serious soldiers, therefore they resort to other means – creeping expansion! They everywhere slowly but surely creep … The period in Mao’s time was an exception when the rate became on military force. But it was done because of merge of traditional representations with the communistic ideas. Now China already outgrew it.

And we are interesting to them as the assistants. It is simpler to them to forward the Chinese citizens further to the west with our participation. Certainly, it is easier to do it, if the person already has not the Chinese nationality, but nationality of one of the Central Asian countries. We are necessary to them purely pragmatically as a certain base.

- And why the Republic of Kyrgyzstan is necessary to the USA? In order to advance the true democracy?


- The Americans in West Point and other academies study theoretical heritage of the Russian general Svechin and Sun Tzu's stratagems. They do it to understand a situation better and to be ready to any surprises. And their idea is quite obvious – the base on “world roof” is necessary for them. Why? Because, it is most favorable to work against China. And, of course, the matter is not in “democracy export”, it is difficult for making after Tiananmen in China, but they perfectly remember the conclusions of Semyonov-Tyan-Shansky about the role of “world roof” …

The Americans study here as though to stick a sting of democracy and human rights into China more painfully. Kyrgyzstan and China have the general border – it means, this circumstance should be used. Therefore all Chinese insurgents and rebels under the brand of persecuted writers, artists and other creators of the modern art also deduce through our country from China to the West. And there already, by the way, the Congress of Xinjiang’s refugees is created; they helped with a radio channel which works very actively.

Well, and that they weren't indignant, here are the money for air base. This factor can't be disregarded by no means – these million dollars are important for economy of the republic. Though, this money enriched the families of fluent presidents, putting a corruption virus in the highest echelons of the authorities.

- Is the air base very important for the USA?

- Well what to tell about “Manas”? “Manas” is a fruit of illegibility and influence of Yeltsin westernized minister Kozyrev when there was the conversation on the bilateral basis at the highest levels between Akayev and Yeltsin about the placement the air bases “Gansi” on the territory of the international airport “Manas”. Yeltsin told: you are the sovereign state and act as you want! Askar Akayev already was under the influence of the international financial swindler Birnstein who owned the Siabeko company and was Akayev's economic adviser.

Among the first countries which have recognized Kyrgyzstan, there were the members of NATO in the majority; our country entered NATO program “Partnership in the name of Peace”. Then after the global stir, after the tragedy on September 11 with destruction of “twin towers” convinced all countries to become the supporters of anti-terrorist fight - and here the project “Indestructible Freedom” with invasion of coalition forces of the USA and NATO to Afghanistan appeared in time!

The “jumping” air base was necessary for providing the transfer of armies, arms and ammunition, material support. There was a work of the state department of the USA with the adjacent countries of Afghanistan: Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Kyrgyzstan. In all countries except Turkmenistan, there were the components of aviation forces of NATO: the Air Force of Germany was based in Uzbekistan, the Air Force of France was based in Tajikistan, but the full-scale air base of the USA settled down in Kyrgyzstan, having transferred the base from Okinawa.

The president Akayev needed the means for personal enrichment and he saw that he will receive such means from the Americans, having placed their air base. That was made … Akayev as the person of the scientific world, with good experience of participation in political life in the USSR, tasted force of the power and the money power, under cover of the international fight against the terrorism, advertizing himself as the person with liberal views, earned huge amounts of money. The air base “Gansi-Manas” became peculiar “Klondike” of the presidential families. And for the Americans it was an indicator of fidelity of the presidents of the new Central Asian “banana” republics.

- Turkey behaves very actively in recent years. With what it is connected?

- I don't see here the politics. Turkey created the federation “Turksoy” – it is the international cultural organization uniting the Turkic countries where the main task proclaimed as preservation and development of the cultural heritage of the Turkic peoples. 49 countries are included into this federation, including the Central Asian republics. The Turks, having understanding that the Kirghiz became not only by language, but also by life, the Russian-speaking on the prospect, created 12 Turkish-Kirghiz schools. The remarkable teachers work there and they speak the Russian, Turkish and English.

It is an interesting fact: recently the book of the chief of external intelligence of Turkey was published who directly told that all these schools were financed by the Americans through Turkey! And the guys from Langley were the teachers … And what result of all these works will be?! There will be the young, vigorous generation speaking in Turkish and turned faced to Ankara. And then they will go further to study to Turkey where will have good grants and experience of westernized views that anything good would be promised to the traditional Russian-Kirghiz relations …

- You always speak about the need of the closest union of Russia and Kyrgyzstan, but there are a lot of problems here…

- It is important for me, that Moscow pursued an imperial politics. The empire is a concentration of achievements of politics, law, military science, culture, and their further translation. Russia should become the empire and tower over own sin! Today Siberia and the Far East are as unloved children from the unloved wife; what to speak about someone else … To sell the natural riches is very poor idea of elite part; you can’t build the great state on it! Force and knowledge should be got from the history.

I will give to you one example. We restored the 8th Guards motor-shooting division in the name of general Panfilov, restored in honor, as a sign of our deep friendship as a sign of sacred memory of 28 Panfilovites given the lives protecting the capital of Moscow. We have the fighting banners of four regiments of this division though Kazakhstan offered any money for them. It is impossible to trade in own history!

We together should resist to the calls which are projected by foreign political scientists and military geographers. I mean such project, for example, as “Big Central Asia”. Rand Corporation doesn't eat own bread in vain, they work here fine and train ours to think as they! They are interested in conflicts in Central Asia. And only Russia can resist to negative succession of events! Russia should know that there are no more pro-Russian people than the Kirghiz.

Always it is necessary to remember about a precept of our ancestors who reached to Omsk on horses and submitted the petition. They made it to keep my people in the conditions of the most severe pressure from the Kokand khanate and Tzu Empire. Our people voluntary were a part of Russia on January 17, 1855 - it was really a historical event and I should tell that nobody cancelled this contract!

Viewed : 1960   Commented: 2

Author: Vladimir Kuzmenkin

Publication date : 28 May 2012 23:10

Source: The world and we

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